Big Cat

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 09/09/2019 at 14:20 • Filed to: Planelopnik, wingspan

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Tigercat getting a tow.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 14:29

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Different big cat getting a tow  

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 14:32

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These Challeger trims are getting ridiculous

user314 > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 14:33

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Good things come in threes:

facw > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 14:42

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Not quite enough detail here for me to identify the location (and didn’t see anything helpful in a reverse image search). I feel like the Gothic building in the back middle might be distinctive enough to ID it, but I don’t recognize it. Someone with more historical knowledge than me might also be able to identify the where that sort of stoplight was used, or what the truck’s plate is. Might be NYC (especially since Grumman was headquartered just outside the city), but from the buildings it could easily be a bunch of other different cities.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 14:48

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I am fond of both Tigercats and International trucks.

ttyymmnn > facw 09/09/2019 at 14:55

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As far as I can tell, Grumman built all of their planes in the NYC area, so that is more than likely NYC. Why it’s getting a tow through town, I don’t know. 

facw > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 15:01

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Yeah, I’ve been out to the Grumman factory a few times, nothing left of the airfield itself, though some of the factory buildings are still in use (mainly as Grumman Studios, which provides large areas for TV/movie sets ). There’s also an F-14, though the F-14 was built farther out on Long Island I think.

user314 > facw 09/09/2019 at 15:01

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A related reddit thread has the same guess. Also:

‘46 Ford Super Deluxe? 

facw > user314 09/09/2019 at 15:05

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Hmm, think that’s probably the one at Grumman Field (the last American F-14 to fly):

The runway’s long gone, so it definitely didn’t fly in.

glemon > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 15:29

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Great picture, at first glance I thought it was a P38, but obviously not when you look close, so then I had to read all about the F7F, which looks like a very capable last generation prop fighter that didn’t work out real well for carri er duty.

ttyymmnn > glemon 09/09/2019 at 15:56

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Yup. It was the best damned Naval fighter that never really saw any service.

Jayvincent > facw 09/09/2019 at 18:28

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you are correct, pic is from this link

http://www.f-14association.com/images/display/display-164603.htm

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Thomas Donohue > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 18:57

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This has been bugging me all day....but I don’t think it’s NYC. Those streetlights don’t look like anything in NY’s history , and the streetcar rails don’t fit in with NY in the mid-to-late 40's either. NYC was all buses by then I think, althought the rails could have still been there. Also, those weird stop lights....for the train? UGH!

Every instance of this pic on the web says NY but I’m not buying it.

Only Vespas... > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 19:22

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Great shot. What is interesting about it is the hail damage on all leading edges of the aircraft. Especially the nose, spinn ers, leading edges and although it’s hard to tell the windshield may be broken. Icing or storm forced it down to a safe landing and now to tow her home. Doubt it’s NYC [where i live] The streetlights, trolley lines  and freestanding clock don’t ring a bell.

ttyymmnn > Only Vespas... 09/09/2019 at 19:53

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That’s a good catch. I hadn’t noticed that. I wonder if he was forced down and is getting a tow back to base or something. 

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 09/09/2019 at 19:55

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I tend to agree. I guessed NYC only because that’s near where Grumman built their planes. But somebody else pointed out all the hail damage, so that means he could have come down anywhere. That clue could make a search more fruitful, but I’m tied up at rehearsal until 10 tonight. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Thomas Donohue 09/09/2019 at 22:39

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A couple hung on until the late 40s and the last till 1957

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/dead-sailing-ships-goodbye-trolleys-1936-article-1.2903124

Thomas Donohue > facw 09/10/2019 at 00:01

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After too much research, I’m going with San Fran on the triple street lights and trolleys (more specifically the powered wires over the streets). Bonus car crash pic.

facw > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 00:22

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Pretty sure you got it. San Francisco did have (and indeed still appears to have) those lights. I think it’s here:

Market Street looking towards the harbor. Most of these buildings are different but I think the green building looks like the dark colored building (note the little projection in the middle, and the weird nearly blank section with the tiny windows along the side ), and the one to the right of that appears to be the same as well, with five columns of windows punctuated by circular elements on that middle tier.

Also, moving in a little, you can see the light still there (or perhaps a modern reproduction?) right where one appears in the picture:

facw > ttyymmnn 09/10/2019 at 00:24

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Looks like Mr. Donohue got it, it appears to be Market Street in San Francisco (see my response to him for modern pics).

facw > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 00:34

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Also, I’m pleased to see that the building I identified as being Gothic (sort of Venetian-style maybe) actually was, though it appears to be a theater as opposed to the pedestal of a tower like I was thinking. Clearly the building in the Tigercat photo though.

At some point it was replaced by this awful department store thing:

Which I guess was then later replaced by the current modern building.

Thomas Donohue > facw 09/10/2019 at 08:43

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Nice find. Surprised to see t hat tall white (H umbolt Bank? ) building still there, as well as most of the others.

I’m pretty sure those are the same lamp posts, holding up the same trolley wires!

facw > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 08:48

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Yep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldt_Bank_Building

Thomas Donohue > facw 09/10/2019 at 08:48

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Turns out it was a Lerner Shop on the right (via redit, although that led most to believe it was NY). Found this shot from almost the same angle as the Tigercat photo.

Thomas Donohue > facw 09/10/2019 at 08:57

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799 Market. Looks to originally have been the California Theater.

1917-1961

Thomas Donohue > facw 09/10/2019 at 09:01

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You saved me about two hours this morning, I’d be going street by street in Google Maps right now . Well done, and thank you!

facw > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 09:04

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No problem, I find this sort of thing fun (but didn’t have time to spend googling 1940s street lamp styles).

I don’t know SF well (despite being born in the bay area), so I just pulled up some pictures of the city in 1945 to find where they had buildings like this, and then just street viewed down Market to find the scene, since it seemed the most likely place.

Thomas Donohue > facw 09/10/2019 at 09:07

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Now to find out why the hell the plane was being towed down Market!!!  Strange that there aren’t any streetcars in the background.  Parade?  

facw > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 09:12

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Maybe. I can tell you there were a lot  more people out for the V-J Day parade, but maybe something else during the war? 

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 10:08

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That is some exceptional police work. Well done. Now I’m starting to wonder more about the situation of the photo. I spent some time researching US Navy Bu numbers and came up empty, though I did read about a fair number of Tigercats that were shot down over Korea, sadly with the loss of their crews. Since this is now pretty well determined to be San Francisco, I have to wonder about where the F7F got damaged. It’s my understanding that hail storms, even thunderstorms, are exceedingly rare in that part of the country. Maybe it got shipped back from overseas? I also wonder about that stray chock behind the starboard landing gear.

I spent a little more time (that I don’t really have) researching Tigercat squadrons, but most of the information comes from their service in Korea, but this photo is clearly during or very soon after the war, based on the cars. I found a history of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMF)  531 based at Cherry Point, NC, and there was a section about the early postwar period of 1946. It talked about how the pilots had so little to do, and so few planes, that they took to performing in air shows just to get stick time. Still, though, not a great explanation for why a hail-damaged F7F is being towed through SF. It’s a puzzle, to be sure. A bu no sure would be helpful....

ttyymmnn > facw 09/10/2019 at 10:08

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Nice detective work by both of you. Now, if we could just see the bu no on that Tigercat....

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 10:10

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I had that thought, but there’s nothing else going on in the background that would suggest a parade, though the streets are clear. VJ Day celebration is a great guess. 

ttyymmnn > user314 09/10/2019 at 10:19

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Interestingly, Grumman only built two twin-engine fighters. One was the F-14 Tomcat , and the other was the F7F Tigercat, which was originally called the Tomcat.

I don’t count the F-111 because that was a joint deal between Grumman and General Dynamics, and it’s not really a fighter.

Thomas Donohue > ttyymmnn 09/10/2019 at 10:31

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VJ day would have been mid August. While it is San Fran and who knows what the weather would have been , t he heavier coats the women are wearing don’t scream ‘summer’.

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 10:40

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“The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.”

—Not Mark Twain

The story of this quote , almost always attributed to Mark Twain, is a rather interesting read. And you seem drawn to riddles.

Thomas Donohue > ttyymmnn 09/10/2019 at 10:47

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Turns out that they only rioted on VJ Day (no joke). Th e much more civilized parade was a month later in September.....

I just watched this 10 min video....tanks, boats, but no planes.

user314 > ttyymmnn 09/10/2019 at 10:58

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Agreed. Had the F-111B been produced I’d argue the point, but the USAF and RAAF ‘Varks were  GD products.

ttyymmnn > Thomas Donohue 09/10/2019 at 11:19

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I just watched this 10 min video....tanks, boats, but no planes.

Rats. I appreciate your dedication, though.

Hamtractor > ttyymmnn 10/08/2019 at 17:49

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The sexiest twin ever made... Kinda the big, loud American uncle ( who gets loaded at BBQ’s and pushes the neighbor around when he talks bad about his football team) to the Mosquito...

ttyymmnn > Hamtractor 10/08/2019 at 18:13

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“It’s the best damn fighter I’ve ever flown.”

– Captain Fred M. Trapnell , US Navy test pilot

And that guy would know.